SPECIAL REPORT - Should the Welsh Assembly be given law-making powers?

Published date: 09 December 2009 | Published by: Rhian Waller, Robert Doman and Holly Evans


SPECIAL REPORT - Should the Welsh Assembly be given law-making powers 

SPECIAL REPORT - Should the Welsh Assembly be given law-making powers 

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THIS week Wales gained a new leader. Carwyn Jones is our new First Minister and will inherit a stacked in-tray from Rhodri Morgan.

One of the most pressing issues forcing its way to the top of his to-do list is likely to be the question of increased powers for the Assembly.

The recent All-Wales Convention report recommended further devolution more quickly and is likely to fuel calls for the Assembly to move closer to the level of autonomy enjoyed by the Scottish Parliament.

The Leader, working with our sister newspapers across North and Mid Wales, set out to create a snapshot of the region’s opinion on the issue.

With the results in, we look at what they say about the Assembly’s impact on us over the past decade and what the future may have in store.

 


The Leader conducted fieldwork and telephone polling across two days at the end of November.

We drew on a combination of face-to-face questioning and calls to residents across each area in a bid to ensure as representative a sample as possible.

Respondents were asked the single question: Do you support more law-making powers for the Welsh Assembly?

Then they were given the opportunity to discuss their answer and reasons with our reporters. Here are our findings:

WREXHAM
YES 42%; NO 26%; UNDECIDED 32%


THERE was strong support for more powers in Wrexham.

Angela Patricks, 37, was among the 21 respondents who backed the plan, and said: “Yes, Wales should be completely away from the government in Westminster, they're only making things worse"

Among the 13 residents who said ‘no’ was Arthur Jones, 78, who said: “We don’t need any more changes to the system, it’s fine how it is. I voted against it n 1999.”

“I don’t think that anything north of Aberystwyth exists for the Welsh Assembly government,” said Brian Evans, reflecting a view expressed frequently by poll respondents in Flintshire and Wrexham.

In Wrexham 16 people said they were undecided.
 

FLINTSHIRE
YES 38%; NO 32%; UNDECIDED 30%


THE county is traditionally one of the most sceptical about the Assembly, having voted against devolution in 1999. This time the results were fairly evenly split.

Of the 50 people we canvassed both face to face and by telephone polling in the county, 19 backed more powers now with several citing specific examples where the Assembly had proved its worth to them.

Debbie O’Neill said: “The Welsh Assembly Government have been good to me as an individual. I was made redundant last year and the Welsh Assembly offered me financial support.

“I have since retrained and got another job so devolution has worked for me.”

And Colin Hughes agreed, adding: “I wasn’t originally a fan of devolution, but when you start looking at what's happening in Scotland – it’s working quite well there with more powers, so why not here?”

There were some strong views among the 16 Flintshire residents who gave the idea the thumbs-down.

Laura Howard from Mold said: “Wales doesn’t need to make its own laws. Britain is only a small island, not like America where they have different state laws.”

 Of those polled in Flintshire, 15 people said they were undecided either saying they didn’t care or didn’t know enough about the Assembly.


RURAL DENBIGHSHIRE and GWYNEDD
YES 50%; NO 16.7%; UNDECIDED 33.3%


IN Denbigh, Ruthin, Corwen and the surrounding area, as well as Bala, people were much more clearly in favour of a more powerful Assembly.

The area is covered by our sister newspaper the Denbighshire Free Press and our interviewers there found a groundswell of support for the convention's report.

Huw Jones from Corwen said: “We’re wasting time and it would be best if Wales had more of a voice in Europe and skipped Westminster altogether.

“Think of the money we could save on MPs! And when you look at the bigger picture, there are all these small Eastern European countries joining in and finding a voice with the European Union so why shouldn’t we have a share of the cake as well?”

Evan Dobson of Bala, over the border in Gwynedd, agreed. He said: “This could help promote the identity of the Welsh Assembly in the eyes of the population.”


COASTAL DENBIGHSHIRE and CONWY
YES 65.6%; NO 21.1%; UNDECIDED 13.3%


THERE was even more resounding support for increased powers in Rhyl, where of 30 people questioned a massive 22 said ‘yes’.

Opinions were more mixed in Colwyn Bay with a third of people voting against, while in Llandudno there was another big ‘yes’ vote.

Residents of the popular seaside resort were in favour of more powers by a 19 to five.
 

POWYS - WELSHPOOL and NEWTOWN
YES 70%; NO 30%


OUR research in the area of Mid Wales covered by the County Times found the highest support of all for the convention’s recommendations, together with a clear sense that the Assembly has a higher profile in this part of Wales.

Whereas elsewhere a significant number of people were undecided or did not care about the issue, in Welshpool, Newtown and the surrounding communities people were much more likely to have a definite view.

Typically unequivocal was Dave Cox of Welshpool, who said: “It’s Wales and we should be governed by the Welsh.”

Isobel Tibbott of Llangynog said: “Being Welsh I would say yes. I would like to see us have a referendum on full devolution.”

A cautionary note was sounded by Phillip Trow of Middletown, who said: “I think it should have some more but not full power across the board because it would cost a lot more in taxes.”

The County Times also conducted an online poll of its readers – not included in the results – but which broadly supported the view our fieldwork found – 63 per cent supported more powers while 27 per cent said ‘no’.
 


WE presented your views to politicians both at Cardiff and Westminster to gauge the initial reaction to the figures.

Delyn AM Sandy Mewies said: “I think the results of your poll reflect the changing attitudes of the electorate towards the National Assembly.

“We deal with so many things that affect every day life. People are seeing the positive impact devolution is having in Wales, for example the way the Welsh Assembly Government has introduced innovative schemes to help people worst affected by the economic downturn, the ground-breaking learn-through-play Foundation Phase in schools, free prescriptions for all, free bus travel for the over 60s, and more front-line staff in the national health service than ever before.

"It is initiatives like these that are making a real difference to the lives of people in Wales and why more voters are now supportive of the idea that the Assembly should have more powers.”

Denbighshire Cllr Raymond Bartley said: “I don’t think it should be any different to Scotland. From a citizens point of view it is very important for the Aassembly to have more powers.”

Delyn MP David Hanson said: “Any changes to the current system would have to have the consent of the people of Wales and I would very much welcome my constituents' views on this.”

 


THE OVERALL RESULT:
THE bottom line is that the people we questioned across the region were, on the whole, supportive of a stronger Assembly.

But there was a marked divide in the margin by which ‘yes’ votes won in each county or area, from the strong support in Powys and coastal Denbighshire to the more divided opinions we encountered in Wrexham and Flintshire.

Ensuring the North East’s support for the Assembly does not wane is likely to be one of Carwyn Jones's toughest challenges.

YES - 55%
NO - 25.2%
UNDECIDED - 19.6%


What do you think of the findings?

Have your say below, your comments may appear across our publications.


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  1. Posted by: Roland Cleth at 11:03 on 09 December 2009 Report

    They shouldn't be trusted with anything more than the equivalent of bin emptying or dog fouling

  2. Posted by: tommy at 16:24 on 09 December 2009 Report

    The assembly is corrupt.Over 90% voted in favour of a badger cull despite overwheliming scientific evidence proving that badgers do not spread TB. This is a stunning testament to how over 49 Assembly Members are in the pockets of the farming lobby.This does not bode well for the people of Wales.Giving these people more power is tatamount to a criminal act.

  3. Posted by: tommy at 16:44 on 09 December 2009 Report

    And the Plaid/ Labour power sharing coalition has proved a disaster for the people of Wales.Plaid have become Labour clones and have uturned on almost every major policy they supported prior to power sharing. In fact on the subject of Plaid,why dont they all follow Mohammad Asghar's example and toddle off over to the tories because quite frankly since Plaid have sniffed power they have behaving like Tories.

  4. Posted by: DrGeoffB at 10:30 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Haha, amazing, last time i looked the yes vote was 5% or so ahead, amazing what a few sad plaid members can do with computers. I'd far rather be ruled by the brains of britain than the off cuts of wales

  5. Posted by: yachydda at 17:12 on 10 December 2009 Report

    My worry is that more powers that could harm local communities and departments like social services could be given to councils... like the proposed new law giving councils the power to confiscate land and properties, regardless of wether you have had a court hearing for debt or not.... these are dangerous laws that no government or council should have.

  6. Posted by: balchder at 18:27 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Its funny that all the negative goons here seem to sing from the same song sheet (know each other?) the supporters have remained dignified, silent, seems like the doubters + "Yachydda" which is a poor attempt at sounding welsh at best and an insult at worst as a username, are all happy with the crooked way westminster deals with our country.Any person who would NOT want to see their OWN country prosper and be self governing is extremely sad and short sighted.

  7. Posted by: drGBoycott at 18:59 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Balchder, the only negative goon is you, i would love to know how "crooked" westminster is ruining us and how non-crooked south wales is doing so much for us. "MY" country is great britain, which will always prosper. Its backward thinkers like you that restrict progress in wales, are you going to blame the english next time you crash your car, step in dog dirt etc

  8. Posted by: tommy at 19:31 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Hi balchde, What goon would want to be ruled by the self opinionated,self serving bunch of gangsters in the WAG. If you think a watered down version of wesminster in Southe Wales will change Wales for the better then you are positively delusional.

  9. Posted by: yachydda at 21:33 on 10 December 2009 Report

    balchder: Thank you for the compliment... but how can one be negative about wanting the best for my country... not the worst... or maby you are just another Labourite instigator who's afraid of the truth,

  10. Posted by: dragonfire at 21:34 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Its interesting to see the usual negative comments from the few who reject democracy, probably incomers with no sense of pride in their adopted Country with a false longing for the historically defunct and reduced British Empire. Wales progresses on further towards her destiny of independance day by day, slowly but surely the unwanted chains of British oppresion are being cast adrift.

  11. Posted by: yachydda at 21:38 on 10 December 2009 Report

    The WAG have proved that they are poor managers of our country, and any new laws they make will be in line with European law...not what we want.... even if we have a change of occupation in the assembly,it wont change, they have smelt the power, now they want the taste.

  12. Posted by: yachydda at 21:46 on 10 December 2009 Report

    dragonfire: What democracy? This government have denied the people the right to democracy since it came to power, Wales is being manipulated and if the WAG get there way we could all be silenced under new planed laws preventing freedom of speech on political issues and AM's.

  13. Posted by: Blegwryd at 21:56 on 10 December 2009 Report

    It might have escaped the razor sharp perception of DrGeoffBoycott, but 700 years of direct rule by Westminster hasn’t exactly proved a resounding success for the people of Wales; unless, of course, he considers the deliberate and systematic destruction of a nation’s linguistic and cultural heritage, or the methodical exploitation of Wales’ population and natural resources to be in some way progressive.

  14. Posted by: a cahill at 22:18 on 10 December 2009 Report

    Watch out Dragonfire...... blaming the incomers for the state of Wales is potentially dangerous..... Given that both WAG & Westminster are only too keen to exploit the contribution the "incomers" have made to the economy and diversity of the Country..... as far as Democracy goes.. it is only at the ballot box that ordinary folk are allowed to play a very small part

  15. Posted by: yachydda at 22:40 on 10 December 2009 Report

    With the news of the change of cabinet ...Jane Hutt will not be pleasing north Wales too soon iether...shes in charge of finance now... looks like south Wales is going for broke before the next election.

  16. Posted by: DrGBoycott at 23:57 on 10 December 2009 Report

    I would dearly love to see evidence of how wales has had its language and culture supressed, provide evidence for once. There are aspects of welsh history of which i am extremely proud, it may shock you to know of history beyond owain glyndwr. However, despite being in my early twenties i have already matured beyond the welsh nationalist phase that most people in the country seem to go through, hopefully one day you will too.

  17. Posted by: DrGBoycott at 00:01 on 11 December 2009 Report

    I had to chuckle at balchder's assumption re people on here knowing each other and sharing viewpoints, when hours later another "new" commenter opens with an almost replica opening line

  18. Posted by: DrGBoycott at 00:06 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Blegwryd, it may have escaped your clearly not so razor sharp notice that our natural resources are few and far between, or is the new great independent wales going to be built on our remaining coal reserves? Whether you like it or not the future for us is in the tertiary & quaternary jobs sector, tell me an independent WAG could attract the jobs to wales, as opposed to the uk distributing jobs thorughout the country.

  19. Posted by: a cahill at 00:17 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Dr G... hee hee haw haw ... what time shall one be arriving to part take in high tea... Roland and Yachydda have suggested 5pm -ish.... I fear that many commentators have mistaken the Leader for the Anglers Times information on fishing trips

  20. Posted by: Roland Cleth at 09:01 on 11 December 2009 Report

    If someone can show me that we, in North Wales, will be better off as part of an independent state then I will be more than willing to support it; however, the South Wales Assembly is desperately trying to prove the opposite. I will not support an independent country of Wales simply on the basis of some misguided historical nationalism.

  21. Posted by: Ieuan at 14:17 on 11 December 2009 Report

    YES - 55% NO - 25.2% It seems to me that the opinion poll is quite significant, no matter what you anti devolutionist think. And now that North Wales is even better represented in the Cabinet, it will probably increase the yes vote even more.

  22. Posted by: Roland Cleth at 15:49 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Ieuan - If there was a fully informed referendum on the matter across the whole of Wales, the answer would be "no". The biggest support for full devolution would probably come from England so they can unburden themselves of the Welsh.

  23. Posted by: tommy at 16:37 on 11 December 2009 Report

    I am all for a devolved wales under a socialst/Peoples government whose industry would be based on the cooperative model,was 100 vegetarian and where the ordinary inhabitants had complete control over their own destiny. But wales under capitalism(which is the present argument) is just another consumer emporium for the alienated massesa depositary where the many are exploited by the few.Screw devolution in it's present from

  24. Posted by: Ieuan at 17:49 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Roland Cleth... I suppose that you are saying that because you are English yourself. It certainly sounds that way! You seem to object and insult everything which has Wales/Welsh attached to it.

  25. Posted by: DrGBoycott at 18:26 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Ieuan, i echo roland cleth's sentiments exactly, yet i am welsh. Disliking the english doesnt make you anymore welsh than anybody else, it just makes you sad with a large chip on your shoulder. Wales will always do 10x better under a british govt than a welsh govt.

  26. Posted by: yachydda at 19:44 on 11 December 2009 Report

    Given that Wales has no real way of keeping itself afloat if it has full devolution...means that it would start life in the red... with us paying for it.... but this is not about devolution... its about law making, and under the Labour party it clearly cannot be trusted.

  27. Posted by: Ieuan at 11:47 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Dr Boycott...who mentioned disliking the English..that must be the chip that YOU carry.So you know that Wales would be 10% better off..how clever of you.

  28. Posted by: a cahill at 12:29 on 12 December 2009 Report

    With Wales having an industrial base owned by multi nationals in the main ... it does beg the question as to where they pay corporation tax ?. unless locally owned businesses can provide enough of a stimulus and tax take for Wales......cont

  29. Posted by: a cahill at 12:36 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Then Wales could be up the creek without a paddle..... as it stands the tax raising powers given to the Scottish are designed to to strenghten the Union as was agreed by the majority of the Panel on the Edinburgh Question Time.....

  30. Posted by: a cahill at 12:46 on 12 December 2009 Report

    On a political point..... is that if Wales does get full independence which is not the case at the moment as it only further law making powers that are being proposed..... Where do the Westminster MPs go to .... the Tories have already mentioned a reduction in Welsh MPs in the commons... which would leave Wales with less in put into the £15billion given as a settlment to run services provided by the WAG

  31. Posted by: a cahill at 13:03 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Before a full headlong rush into independence with the usual nationalist versus anti slanging match... it would do well for people to consider the structure of a future Wales... where will the money be raised from to sustain it and will the present discredited political system remain in place.... it is reasonable to assume that a modern forward looking strategy would be the basis for an Independent Wales

  32. Posted by: DrGBoycott at 14:13 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Ieuan, why dont you admit you dislike the english, every plaid member and welsh nationalist i have ever met apart from 2 or 3 does. I have nothing against the english, im at uni in england. I'd love to know how wales would be better off under self-governance. Like ive said, the best of english, welsh, scottish and ulstermen is far better than than the left overs from wales. Out of interest, how would a WAG attract new investment from multi-nationals, over anywhere else in the UK?

  33. Posted by: a cahill at 15:48 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Ieuan..... these polls are not as significant as you believe because they can be manipulated to suit the views of certain groups or individuals.... one commeny recently was that the Leader is not very well read so we have posted on facebook

  34. Posted by: Ieuan at 21:16 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Cahill...Independence isn't even part of the equation. Introducing red herrings is simply illogical and plain stupid. You are living in the past old son. And as for multinational companies , well I would suggest that the majority of BRITISH busiess could be classed the same.

  35. Posted by: a cahill at 23:30 on 12 December 2009 Report

    Ieuan....I'm glad we agree on something but given the postings above one would be led to the belief that independence is the issue a fact mentioned in the third posting..... with most of the multinationals in Wales having head offices in England then that is where they will pay any taxes

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