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Historic battle to be imortalised on film

Published date: 13 August 2010 |
Published by: Phil Robinson


 

TWO amateur historians are to star in a film depicting one of Wales’ most glorious episodes.

In 1165 the Welsh princes joined forces to defeat an invasion of their country by England’s King Henry II.

They gathered their armies at the hill fort of Caer Drewyn, just above Corwen and headed for the Ceiriog Valley where they clashed with the English at what is now Castle Mill.

Despite being outnumbered, in the subsequent Battle of Crogen the Welsh partisans managed to defeat the invading force of 30,000 men and put it to flight.

Over the past few years part-time historians Mark Williams and Deryn Poppitt have campaigned tirelessly for the site of the battle to be officially recognised.

It is now firmly on the tourism map of the region and visited by scores of people each year, with Mark and Deryn providing stirring running commentaries on the bloodthirsty combat which took place there.

Later this month they will be demonstrating their historical expertise in front of the camera when they narrate a special film being made about the battle to mark the re-opening of Wrexham Museum early next year after a major facelift.

Mark said: “The film will be short but is being properly done by a local company.

“Scenes will be shot around Caer Drewyn and Deryn and I will do the narration.

“Deryn will present the English side of the story describing the progress of their army from Corwen to the battle site, and I will follow the Welsh army’s advance into the Ceiriog Valley.

“A number of groups which re-enact medieval battles will be taking part and the whole thing should be very exciting.”

More than a hundred people turned up at the battle site for the unveiling of new interpretation boards which incorporate replicas of the weapons used in the battle and were created by Deryn and Mark with the help of their colleague Paul Jenkins.

The unveiling was performed by Guy Myddleton of Chirk Castle at a ceremony also attended by Susan Elan Jones, MP for Clwyd South and the mayor of Wrexham, Cllr Jim Kelly. The ceremony also included period re-enactments by the group House of the Black Star from Wrexham.

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  1. Posted by: liberty1 at 20:02 on 14 August 2010 Report

    Can anyone please direct me to websites which give historical accounts of BoC ,other than those connected with Mr W/P?

  2. Posted by: MrSpeed at 11:01 on 15 August 2010 Report

    I find it quite worrying- the the ONLY evidence I've found for this battle is in a book written called 'A Topical History of Wales' written in 1849 by Samuel Lewis. Lewis's information when he wrote the book, was based on local legend/stories.

  3. Posted by: MrSpeed at 11:03 on 15 August 2010 Report

    There is absolutely NO REAL hard, irrefutable evidence for this battle having taken place on that particular site, or if there was a battle at all! I know the 2 chirk men have worked very hard over the years, and now Wrexham Museum are involved, and Its great to be proud of your heritage BUT wheres the EVIDENCE? Where's the contemporary historical writing - saying there was a battle and pin-pointing where it was, where's the geo phys?

  4. Posted by: MrSpeed at 11:03 on 15 August 2010 Report

    No one has dug up the site. I just think that before going into this full blast - someone should have done some serious research and got some concrete evidence that this battle happened, and was fought in that exact spot. No one has.

  5. Posted by: liberty1 at 19:53 on 16 August 2010 Report

    Mr Speed ,Thanks for your reply ,I enjoy history and was looking foreward to reading in more detail about this event but could not find anything in Wxm library or internet ,it does beg the question who is paying for this film ? is it coming out of council tax ? should taxpayers pay for fiction portrayed as fact? more direction to find out historical detail would be welcome.

  6. Posted by: Wrexhamite at 22:53 on 16 August 2010 Report

    Have you contacted them to find out their sources or attended one of their talks? Or would you rather hide behind your keyboards & put them down for trying to highlight a part of our local history? I attended a talk they gave which quoted various historical sources and seems they have done a lot of research. Typing a few words into google or browsing through a book is not research. If you can find the info put on the web maybe you can find contact details and ask instead of slating them!

  7. Posted by: Wrexhamite at 23:17 on 16 August 2010 Report

    Have you contacted them to find out their sources or attended one of their talks? Or would you rather hide behind your keyboards & put them down for trying to highlight a part of our local history? I attended a talk they gave which quoted various historical sources and seems they have done a lot of research. Typing a few words into google or browsing through a book is not research. If you can find the info put on the web maybe you can find contact details and ask instead of slating them!

  8. Posted by: yachydda at 06:26 on 17 August 2010 Report

    Wales was a really unrully place in those days...local history was sketchy at the very best, I cannot see these two gents claiming a battle at this site without reasonable evidence... is there any evidence on show at the Wrexham musium? there are bound to be many battle sites that are surounded by local legends/stories.. that does not mean they never happened..

  9. Posted by: liberty1 at 20:34 on 17 August 2010 Report

    Wrexhamite, nobody is hiding behind keyboards or putting down people ,simple questions have been asked ,why the thin skin? why the aggresive manner? If you can provide further info please do ,that is all that was requested ,as for Mr W/P why have they not responded ? nobody has been "slated" ,I am at a lose as to why you have commented in such a manner.!!!

  10. Posted by: liberty1 at 22:21 on 17 August 2010 Report

    Wrexhamite ,have looked for contact details ,cannot find ,please advise ,thankyou.

  11. Posted by: crogenite at 22:32 on 17 August 2010 Report

    My name is Mark Williams and i tried to reply last night but for some unknown reason it would not submit. The primary sources are Gerald of Wales Itinery and the description of Wales and the Brut y Twysogion. Then came the first formal history of Wales by Powel The history of Cambriae followed by Pennants Tour in Wales, also The tribes of Wales by Yorke and the history of Powys Fadog by C Lloyd. These listed are among many others i have not mentioned.

  12. Posted by: Wrexhamite at 22:37 on 17 August 2010 Report

    You can find both of them in the phone directory, but deryn's number is easier to find and the email address from facebook is crogen1165@talktalk.net I believe both work shifts and have young families so maybe haven't had time to respond. Not being thin skinned, I love local history myself, just think it would be better to contact them first before knocking their hard work in public. There are not many people in this world prepared to do something for nothing.

  13. Posted by: Wrexhamite at 22:39 on 17 August 2010 Report

    You can find both of them in the phone directory, but deryn's number is easier to find and the email address from facebook is crogen1165@talktalk.net I believe both work shifts and have young families so maybe haven't had time to respond. Not being thin skinned, I love local history myself, just think it would be better to contact them first before knocking their hard work in public. There are not many people in this world prepared to do something for nothing.

  14. Posted by: History at 14:35 on 18 August 2010 Report

    I would just like to add some more sources to the one's that my colleague Mark has listed. 'A Memoir of Chirk Castle and the Myddelton Family ad 1044 - 1859 - Hugh Roberts

  15. Posted by: History at 14:45 on 18 August 2010 Report

    The History of Wales - Caradoc William Wynne 1774, A History of Chirk Castle and Chirkland - Margaret Mahler 1912, A History of the Parish of Chirk - C N Hurdsman 1996, History of Oswestry - William Cathrall 1855. If either of the above gentlemen would like a guided tour of the Crogen site by myself and Mark we would be more than happy to oblige. My email address is dpoppitt@talktalk.net

  16. Posted by: History at 17:08 on 18 August 2010 Report

    The History of Wales - Caradoc William Wynne 1774, A History of Chirk Castle and Chirkland - Margaret Mahler 1912, A History of the Parish of Chirk - C N Hurdsman 1996, History of Oswestry - William Cathrall 1855. If either of the above gentlemen would like a guided tour of the Crogen site by myself and Mark we would be more than happy to oblige. My email address is dpoppitt@talktalk.net

  17. Posted by: liberty1 at 19:55 on 18 August 2010 Report

    crogenite/History ,Thankyou both for the info provided ,my reading for the darker nights of Autumn has now been sorted ,also thankyou for the offer of a guided tour of the site which I will take up at a later date once I am aware/familiar of all the factual info ,should be an interesting day out ,once again,thankyou.

  18. Posted by: liberty1 at 20:04 on 18 August 2010 Report

    Wrexhamite, Please read all post connected to this topic and you will see how civilised people share info ,nobody has been "knocking" anyone ,you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

  19. Posted by: crogenite at 00:05 on 19 August 2010 Report

    Another interesting book on this subject and many others is Dating the past in North east Wales by D.Williams which should be in Wrexham library.I also collect the old field,road and river crossing names in and around the Ceiriog Valley. Mark.

  20. Posted by: MrSpeed at 14:22 on 20 August 2010 Report

    I've obviously upset you, and didn't mean to! I'm aware of the books you've listed. I haven't just 'googled' it! My point it - these books are SECONDARY sources, NOT primary. The Mahler book and Neville's book for instance - the facts are taken from previous books... even the early books that mention the battle - like Wynne's book, have no CONTEMPORARY evidence.

  21. Posted by: MrSpeed at 14:35 on 20 August 2010 Report

    I'm sure Mark and Deryn have worked tirelessly - and I wasn't having a go at them! Its directed at Wrexham museum - shouldn't they have delved deeper into this? Haven't they got resources where they can do some digging on the site and find real tangible evidence. I'm from and now live again in the area. I'm LOVE local history, that's why I have a Phd in it. I specialise in the Interregnum.

  22. Posted by: MrSpeed at 14:36 on 20 August 2010 Report

    So Mark & Deryn ignore this, Wxm Museum, pull your finger out! Find the real evidence for this battle and THEN make a wonderful visitors centre so all the local children can find out, maybe re-live, and be proud of their own heritage!

 

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